Due to some discussion on another blog about the difficulty seminary students have in finding a church which can pay a decent salary as well as housing, I've been thinking a lot about the sending of interns to churches that have a hard time "affording" an intern pastor.
And I suppose it is hard enough to find churches willing to take an intern so the interns end up taking what they can get.
It seems to me that an ideal church to go to would be a thriving church that truly "can't afford" an intern. That would be an interesting setting and, perhaps, a cultural change for many interns.
But the reality is that many (most??) churches afford what they choose to afford. I mean that in the widest sense. We live in a culture that encourages immediate gratification and living off of plastic and credit. It also encourages feathering one's own nest. Therefore, so many people "can't afford" to tithe; they've gotten themselves hooked into many obligations. We, as a church, don't do much to counter this "education" that is provided by the culture. High schools could easily drop a month of some subject in favor of "practical consumer math education" For everybody!
However, the ELCA provides people (expenses paid by the church) to come into churches to conduct major stewardship campaigns, usually for a building project. And guess what? A church that has been living month to month suddenly has $200,000 pledged. Maybe people are just digging into their excess. Maybe they are sacrificing. But it is for bricks and mortar. Feathering the nest. I think that the consultant isn't successful because he/she is telling the congregation something new, but rather because he/she is telling them something they already know. They already know that they could be more intentional about giving to their church.
Several years ago, at one of our regular stewardship talks in church, an elderly member got up and said, "There is good news and bad news about money in this church. The Good News is that we have all the money we need. The Bad News is that it is still in your pockets."
How about encouraging some sacrifice for the training of ministers? Should the ELCA have some minimum standards for paying an intern? Or perhaps they could encourage some kind of alternative compensation.
Note: Having been active in my church for years, I know that the synod guidelines for pastor's salaries are really helpful for churches. People tend to be "overly frugal" about paying a pastor. Even with the guidelines, salaries aren't going to make anyone rich. I've often wondered if a "fair salary" might be the sum of the tithes of ten people on the church council. Now that would be in interesting requirement!
You wrote: "How about encouraging some sacrifice for the training of ministers? Should the ELCA have some minimum standards for paying an intern? Or perhaps they could encourage some kind of alternative compensation."
ReplyDeleteI believe there is a minimum standard for paying an intern. It is not much, but its something. I am not sure if it is an ELCA standard or a seminary one. But correct me if I am wrong.
Also, I believe congregation are carefully selected and screened to try to avoid sending an intern into an unhealthy situation. Of course, some unhealthy congregation slip through the cracks.
But over all, compensation is indeed a big issue. The pastor's salary can often create the most heated debate. And when the pastor talks about money in church people often say, "Sounds like the pastor is looking for a raise".
Lastly -- I am not sure I would want to be paid according to the tithe of ten council members. I would encourage me to work harder on stewardship, but if you have to "bribe" a pastor to preach and teach about stewardship, there is a problem.
Eric
To clarify my statement about the sum of ten tithes, I meant that the pastor's salary would then fit right in with the medium of the community. Of course, I wasn't completely serious about that. Some people look at the pastor's salary plus the parsonage, if there is one, and think about the many hundreds of dollars per month that the pastor doesn't have to pay for a mortguage and what he doesn't have to pay for upkeep.
ReplyDeleteWhat isn't realistic, however, is paying an intern just a smidge more than the local area charges for rent. If a particular church is a very good place for an intern but really can't pay much, then there needs to be some other type of compensation coming from somewhere.
Imagine how many pastors, missionaries, underemployed persons and poor could be paid salaries/helped if every person biblically tithed 10%.
ReplyDeletePS -- I was kind of thinking that was what you were thinking, but I wanted to comment just to make sure.
ReplyDeleteAs for the interns -- Myself and most of my classmates were fortunate to have housing provided. Along with that, we were all paid $1000 per month. At the time we didn't see ourselves as struggling to get by. That was our situation, but I realize that not every intern has that experience. We definitely need to take very good care of our interns - they are the future leaders of the church.
inheritor of heaven -- Amen brother!!! I agree 100%.
Eric
It is still $1000 a month stipend plus housing. Of course housing costs are different in other areas, but the allowance usually means "very modest" housing. They also pay the internship regisration fees (another word for tuition) and health insurance.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, my experience is that congregations who take interns also take good care of them. Again, not all are alike.
How many years has it been at $1000/month?
ReplyDeleteI've been told by an intern that these salaries, etc. are negotiable and many interns get way less than that, or at least not the amounts in addition to the $1000/month.
An intern who decides to take an internship within a restricted geographic area may end up taking much less than if they are willing to move.
As far as I know, the $1000 stipend, insurance costs and fees are uniform throughout the ELCA but are minimum obligations. Some congregations do pay more, but I suppose that they are few and far between. Interns that restrict themselves geographically have to sign a waiver to housing allowance. Congregations with interns who have restricted are not obligated to pay for housing, but many still do.
ReplyDeleteI did my internship 4 years ago and the $1000/month was standard then and had been for some time. Like I said earlier all of the classmates I can think of had housing provided plus health insurance plus tuition in addition to $1000/month. But like David said I am sure that is not 100% uniform through our church, but it should be.
ReplyDeleteAs for restricting, a few people in my class resticted but Luther Seminary had internship sites throughout the country so restricting was not a big deal as long as there was a certified site in that area. Luther did a good job to make sure we weren't placed in an unhealthy congregation. At least that was my experience four years ago.
I have a specific case in mind, but I would only tell the specifics to a personal email address.
ReplyDeleteYou can email me at: reverichullstrom@yahoo.com if you want to discuss this more.
ReplyDeleteEric
"Churches afford what they choose to afford."
ReplyDeleteLOUD AMEN!
I left you an answering comment over at my place. :-)
Hey there P.S.
ReplyDeleteI got "tagged" by a fellow blogger so I am here to tag you to share the "five things you dig about Jesus". See my blog post for today for more details.
Eric
I am one of those "restricted" interns.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind sharing that my stipend is $1000. The total of my housing (not covered), health insurance (not covered, but required) and day care expenses is $2018. Its not a good way to run a budget, especially when one still has to pay for transportation and food! Thankfully, it is a situation that only lasts for one year.
mamas,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to hear that internship is such a struggle financially. Churches really need to take care of their future leaders. The fact they are not porviding housing and health insurance is so surprising and discouraging. I wish you the best and I know I don't have to tell you, but God will care for you. Blessings to you as you complete your education.
Eric
When I interned 2 years ago, I restricted because I have a special needs son. I chose to waive all pay (salary, housing, insurance, mileage reimbursement, you name it). The seminary discouraged the idea but also understood that moving my son would be detrimental in many ways. They found a commutable site where the supervisor was married to a seminary professor. The placement blew up within 4 months - not a healthy situation (BTW, another intern had preceded me, had also waived all compensation, and also had a negative experience with the supervising pastor).
ReplyDeleteWithin 6 weeks of the blow up, the seminary found another commutable site for me, where I completed my internship. The rural 2 point parish where I served was truly struggling to keep the doors open but somehow managed to find $400/month to pay me. The women of the church, when told I could intern for free, stated, "Absolutely not! She needs to be paid for her work!" They held fundraisers (which sometimes felt a bit awkward for me) and dipped into some funds they had socked away for a rainy day. In addition, the site chose to become an internship site the following year!
I consider the seminary wonderfully supportive in many ways, but their hands were virtually tied when it came to financial considerations.
On another note: at the ELCA seminary I attended, congregations were encouraged to pay insurance but seldom did...not that ELCA seminary insurance is particularly beneficial...but that's another post for another time :)